Step into the world where trends, brands, and society collide, and experience the magic of "Cultural Alchemy." Join us for an unfiltered conversation with a visionary brand marketer Michael Schneider who's not just riding the cultural wave – but reshaping it. Schneider is an expert on pop culture, fashion, style, celebrity, niche and youth culture, and society—leveraging online communities and influencers to build and launch immersive experiences, content, and campaigns for start-up to Fortune 30 companies.
Schneider’s journey will resonate particularly with those navigating the entrepreneurial realm, where challenges and triumphs often intertwine. Refreshingly Schneider challenges the conventional mindset that success breeds happiness, advocating for a shift from "Have, Do, Be" to "Be, Do, Have." finding contentment within, propelling purposeful actions, and allowing rewards to naturally follow.
Schneider describes how with age, the entrepreneurial journey becomes a dance with escalating stakes. He highlights the crucial interplay between challenges and mental well-being and underscores the power of faith, whether in oneself or the universe, as a resilient foundation against life's uncertainties.
In the pursuit of success, Schneider spotlights the significance of valuing relationships. He counters the corrosive nature of comparison, advocating for a focus on authentic impact and in finding solace in outward focus. By extending kindness and support to others, he has experienced personal growth. While he acknowledges personal milestones he also underscores the profound fulfilment derived from aiding others on their journeys.
Mentorship also emerges as a guiding light in Schneider's narrative. Learning from those who've trodden similar paths mitigates avoidable missteps. He emphasizes the transformational power of translating mentorship into actionable steps.
Fiona
Today, I am thrilled to be joined by Michael Schneider of Secret Sauce. And my special friend and colleague, Perry Kadaster, who has much experience in entrepreneurship. Michael, you are an entrepreneur and you're living the entrepreneur life. Tell us a bit about Secret Sauce.
Michael Schneider
The Secret Sauce is a community founded for people who are really interested in sneakers, streetwear collectibles, anything that's like, kind of current culture with Gen Z, it has some sort of additional value and representation within that generation and within the generations that should have pop culture before. So Secret Sauce is there to provide a solution for people to start acquiring assets that may be on tangible or intangible to other categories. So things like high end sneakers and Jordans that have limited drops, you know, formerly before all the chaos easy's right if you look at collectibles, things like cause figures and things like that. So I like to look at it as kind of modern day art form that people are interested in. And they're excited about, and we're an all in one resource for them.
Fiona
Incredible. So it's a pretty, I think you say an American niche, but I would say niche, because I'm English. In some ways, I mean, you'll be surrounded by people who have the same interest in the same thing. So it won't feel niche to you. But to someone from, say, who works in financial services in London, it might be quite novel to them. What's your view on that? And how did you end up doing it because with a career or a job or a vocation, like you have, you may consider it a vocation is there isn't a Oh, you leave school. And this is what you'll do. It takes its own its own form. So how did you end up where you are now?
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, you know, the culture itself evolved from, you know, lines outside of supreme and for Nike Dunk drops at Princeton, Mercer Street in New York City, right. And so that ended up becoming kind of ground zero for what evolved into this culture. And people were going after these limited edition sneakers, you know, the first one being the pigeon dunk, which was catastrophically turned into, you know, some moderate version of a riot, where people were trying to get this limited edition sneaker that was releasing a collaboration between Jeff staple and Nike. And so that evolved into a culture where people were waiting outside in the streets of New York and trying to acquire these shoes either to you know, keep for themselves resell to somebody who was interested in them, etc. So someone in financial services might be like, Wow, I really want those shoes, but I'm not going to go wait on the street for them. And so, you know, somebody would go wait on the streets. And then depending on how difficult that was, that would basically adjust the price, how much supply there was and how much demand so it's a fairly new market. I mean, it's only, you know, really had prevalence for for 20 years beginning and, you know, coming into, I would say the mid 2010s is when it started to grow and started to become more accessible, specifically with the rise of Virgil Abloh. And so, around that, you know, design started to moreso reflect what these kids were wanting, right, you saw Virgil Abloh obviously get appointed the men's director at Louis Vuitton, etc. So the design world started to catch up to what was happening in the streets and what was happening with the second unit. So, you know, our goal has always been to give these guys a leg up kind of a champion of underdogs, so to speak, like, you know, the guys who are really willing to put in the hustle, the work, etc. That's something I've always respected. You know, my, my father when I was growing up, right around the time I was three to five years old, kind of in that in that range, there was a Power Rangers boy I really wanted. It was this big dinosaur Power Ranger toy, and you could only buy it in Canada. Well, that was fascinating. We lived in Texas, right? And so what he realised is okay, if I could go to Canada and I could get a lot of these. Let me bring it to Dallas and see what I could do. And so he brought it Texas with him, brought tonnes of these toys, I think he bought a couple 100 of them and shipped a pallet back and was taking out newspaper articles to sell them and so I had them for quite a margin. This was before the time that eBay was even developed, right, but then eBay came on the scene was able to basically revolutionise that business. So I've always had a passion for people who have looked for unique arbitrage opportunities and said, Okay, you know, I want to go at it, I want to do it, my career has been kind of a longer stretch. You know, I moved to Los Angeles knowing I wanted to get into the entertainment industry knowing, you know, I wanted to be around the media culture. That is Los Angeles, I started out in film and television production, basically, my first day here moved into event production for some period after that anything from you know, small parties and warehouses all the way to, you know, massive festivals. And so I've worked basically on varying levels of all of the above ads, after doing that, I finally was like, Okay, this lifestyle is a little too quick and fast for me. And so what I ended up doing was getting more into marketing, understanding the media landscape and understanding culture got more into marketing, originally, as a paid media agency, it was easy to be a tech services provider, and just figure out, Okay, is there some way we can adjust the marketing landscape, this was before Facebook had integrated big data, I had a relationship with a big data company and realised we could infer it, we could infer modelling from traditional big data sources into Facebook, I started doing that for a number of years, eventually said, this is kind of boring and got back to my roots of of event production and live television and started doing a political activism around the 2016 campaigns, supporting with live stream shows and events and things like that. And then from there, I realised, you know, I really have a skill set that can help agencies and help agencies figure out their products and what they're doing and what they're providing to their clients, service based industry. It's only so much fun, but you know, I definitely I definitely had to cut my teeth there. So to speak, and signed on to a couple different agencies helping them service their clients eventually got to one that was servicing fortune 50 brand target, and was supporting that across pretty much all of their celebrity and influencer campaigns. So at that point, you know, I got to roughly doing 100 to 120 different individual activations with influencers and celebrities annually, which is quite a bit, it was quite a bit of a deal flow is quite a bit of volume, but it definitely was a great area for me to learn a little bit more about running a business because that in itself was a business, you know, and it doing such I was like, Okay, this is this is fun, and some of the kids I was around at the agency were very, like creative output, you know, they all had their different interests, right, for different forms of culture, etc. And I had kind of lost that spark, you know, I gotten really good at the business side, but you know, the hobby and the the excitement and the, you know, things that made me me had kind of gone away a little bit, you know, it when it gets pointed out, he's like, You need to get a hobby, you need to get into something that had me research and streetwear and sneakers, I was like, Oh, this is something I understand I get you know, I come from a background that is clearly brings me on to this path, add in that realised we could found secret sauce, it provide toolkit for people where platforms like eBay and stock X go, which you may or may not be aware of all we're providing a sales function for people, you know, if you acquired a sneaker you were able to go sell it. Well, nobody was really providing like a how do you actually go get the sneaker? Right? You know, how do you actually go get the product. And so it was a clear opportunity in the market. We ended up founding secret sauce. It was been a interesting journey. I'm happy to chat more about it. But that's how I got there.
Fiona
Yeah, that's massively interesting. Peri, I know you'll have thoughts on this work as a marketer yourself. What were you thinking when Michael was sharing his story?
Peri Kadaster
I just I love the fact that something like marketing can mean so many different things and take on a life that meanders, you know, throughout one's career. And that can change quite a bit. But what really stuck with me, I think, is the fact that you took this kind of this notion of like you said, you were you lost your spark. And that actually became the impetus and the opportunity and the 'aha moment' for you to actually create something that is brand new and is is a source of your passion. So I just I love that because especially in the lives of entrepreneurs, you feel so many depths, and you know, you don't see the you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel necessarily until you're there so for someone going through a dip, for example, what What would your thoughts be in terms of finding that spark again?
Michael Schneider
Yeah, you know, this was, this was a shower thought of mine earlier, for lack of a better term, but I was honestly, I was like, I think in my 20s, I was always hoping it would get easier, right? I was always like, at some point, I'm gonna hit the level of success where it gets easier, and I'm going to feel better, and I'm gonna have all the things I want, it's the mentality of once I have the things I want, then I'll do all the things I need to do. And I'll be the person I want to be. And I like to flip that on his head and say, Okay, well, how can you be happy in spite of that? How can you be the person you want to be, then do the things you want to do and then ultimately, get the rewards that you want? So instead of, you know, have to be which most people think once I have it, I'll be great. Be do have, right? How can I be that inspiring person and so for, for me thinking about that, in the context of, you know, the ups and downs, it's like, not having the expectation that it's going to get easier, because I hate to, like, I hate to, you know, blow the wind out of anyone's sails. It doesn't, it doesn't, it actually gets more challenging. As you get older, as your career goes on the risks, the stakes get higher, you know, the risks get higher, especially in entrepreneurship, you know, it gets increasingly more challenging, but I think that the relationship with those challenges is something that's entirely important to people. And that in that, to me is like the precipice of mental health. It's like, I know, the right not a perfect person, I'll first to admit, definitely not a perfect person, in my 20s, my relationship to stress and anxiety, or any sort of external stress and anxiety was not healthy, right? It was, oh, my gosh, the world is crumbling around me, you know, my relationship to existential crisis? Is this point my life much different? Right, you know, how do I have a balanced and measured approach to it? And how do I, you know, understand that maybe it's not as catastrophic as it might be. So, how to deal with the ebbs and flows, I think, you know, there's a couple key components to it, one, having some degree of faith, whether it be faith in a higher power or faith in yourself, you know, or faith in the universe, or whatever sort of structure you agree, and everything's gonna be okay. Right. And if at some level, you inherently believe that, then then nothing can really rock you, nothing can really change, take you off your kilter. And then I think that I think faith is step one, and then understanding like the difference between an emotional reaction and a rational, right, like, how do you sit in between those? And what is in between those? It's something my therapist, yes. And see, a therapist likes to call the wise mind sits between the rational and the emotional. And I think, when you're able to access and say, okay, using a little bit of what I'm getting, from my emotional mind, a little bit of what I'm getting, from my rational mind, can I make the decision that's really right here, instead of doing something that's entirely counterproductive, or something that I know, I'm going to regret later? You know, can I potentially just making a decision that's, that's based in grounded on my core values on who I am, and who I want to show up is in the world. And so I think between those two things, dealing with the evidence and flows or do is doable, right, if you just kind of ride the wave, it will, it will ride you into a very dark place in some places.
Fiona
Definitely. I mean, Peri and I nodding because what you're saying totally resonates with, I know, our own experience, but also what we have in ochre as a product, but also, we've been talking about a lot over the last year or so. But I'm I, as a psychologist who's worked with leaders in all sorts of different situations, it's, I've seen that have does not give, if that makes sense that's attaining that success. Even if it's not a financial success, but status, it's hollow. Because if you're not intrinsically motivated by it, if it's not driven by what really means something to you, then there's always something else you have to go after. And but that doesn't mean the alternative I like to say it's easy, because that, that if you have an understanding of what I call it, what meaning means to you, then it provides you with that anchor, so that the sea can be rough and the boat can move around, but you know that you've still got the anchor in the same place and you're heading in the same way. And but what what I noticed from what you're saying is you at some intuitive level, you've had that all along, but because you've kind of when you've gone off course, you've course corrected, you've taken a step back and gone hang on a minute. I'm not actually doing what lights me up here. And that's not what my life should be about. That's yeah, it's quite skilled doing that. Yeah,
Michael Schneider
I mean, I'm not perfect, right. You know, I mean, I've gone off course for years at a time, to be completely frank, I've built a t's something I cherish, etc. But you know, when those kinds of things or material things, took precedent over who I am as a person, that has not been my best self, and so I'm in full recognition on when I've prioritised having over who I want to be. And definitely, definitely had those moments, even for extended periods of time. And I think that, you know, when we, when we really look at how we want to show up in the world, and how we want to be as a human being, and how we want to feel even, you know, how you want to feel about yourself, like chasing the money chasing the status, chasing the success, chasing the power chasing the item, you know, can be really rewarding, but you've got to be able to prioritise where it matters, right, you've got to be able to put family above it, you've got to be able to put yourself above it, you got to be able to put your goals above it. And the second that it becomes kind of and I realised this is somewhat antithetical to what we even do as a business. Right? It's somewhat antithetical to capitalism as a whole, right? Because we're kind of glaciated, trained, you know, to go chase, Chase, Chase. But when we, when we really focus on, you know, the things that matter and prioritising our lives correctly, in a way that is beneficial to who we want to be, I think that's where people find that they find more happiness, find more success, even. Because it becomes less about comparison, right? It becomes less about, oh, I don't have this, but this guy does. So I don't have this, but this popstars living this lifestyle, it becomes less about that becomes more about what you're uniquely bringing out into the world and what you're uniquely providing to the world. And so, you know, I always encourage people that are having a low moment, including even myself, it's like, okay, how can I focus outward? How can I provide something to someone else and give a positive experience to someone else?
Fiona
That was exactly what I was about to just ask you. Because pro sociality, I don't know if you've heard of that term? But it's basically our propensity to want to help other people that somehow gets buried in the way that were brought up through the way we live in society and messaging, and what have you, is one of the best tonics for mental health. But, you know, we have to find our own way of doing that has to be aware of giving back. We're not doing our duty is similar sort of thing. But we're doing out of what makes me light up. When I say that oh, person's face, when I hold the door open when I smile when I say hello, or it could be, you know, get donating money. It could be different things for different people. But that, you know, the researchers, you'll know, because, as you said, You've read loads around this stuff shows that pro sociality is a huge component of our own well being. And I think it's drummed out of us, I think we are naturally actually far more altruistic and pro social than, than we grow up to be.
Michael Schneider
Yeah. 100% I mean, as an entrepreneur, like closing a round of capital, or hitting a revenue goal, etc, can be really, really exciting.
Fiona
But I don't relate to voting as well.
Michael Schneider
Yeah. 100% Like, I mean, not to make that wrong. Like, I mean, I think I think it's actually a great thing, you know, and I think it's something that you should celebrate, right. But I would say that the more like meaningful and fulfilling aspects of the work I've done have been when I've been able to sit with someone in a hard time. Like when I've been able to have a conversation and really reach out to somebody when they're at a point where they need to be motivated and not that you need to seek people out that are having a hard time like you can be generous and giving to people or even at the best of times, but I think that you know, being able to support someone else on their journey is is just as fulfilling is your own milestones, if not even more in some case,
Peri Kadaster
I was gonna say it's just important because the the journey of an entrepreneur is often a lonely one. And some of those highs and lows you're kind of absorbing yourself. So what are some of the steps that you take to kind of keep yourself either grounded maybe it's mentors in your in your life. Maybe it's just inspiration from the tastemakers that you work with, but who are some of the other parties that kind of make up your personal little ecosystem that keeps you grounded and keeps you going?
Michael Schneider
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it feels like it's been fluctuating. And I've been like, I've been trying to find the right components for that for a long period, you know, I'm mad. For some reason, I'm 33 years old, right. And most of the people that I look up to I talked to, and 33 was a hard time, and I'm no different than them. Like I had a very difficult year in a lot of ways. And those are the people who can be realist with me, who can, you know, have a conversation with me about how they, you know, rose out of adversity, how they dealt with challenges and issues. Those are the ones that inspire me the most. And so, yeah, I would say like, you know, it was a journey to find, not only a therapist, but the right therapist. I mean, I think that is huge, right, and just having someone to check you because, you know, entrepreneurship, we were just talking, I think slightly before this about the hypomanic edge. And if you go and survey a group of entrepreneurs, you'll see that they basically all qualify for hypomania, right. So it is very easy to lose yourself into Hi, Bill mania, especially during Entrepreneurship, it's almost rewarded. You know, your VCs want you to have an incredible energy about you, etc, and be sort of invigorating. And so, you know, having someone to check in and be honest with you about where you're at, I think is incredibly valuable. So I think therapists huge mine, Andy Saunders, love him, I think he's great. It took a long time to find that person. The other thing I think, in mentorship, that that is super helpful is finding people who can relate to where you've been, and actually listening to it. It's like the most mistakes I think I've made in my entrepreneurship journey, were completely avoidable. Had I listened to people ask questions about before I made the mistakes, you know, and I think that when you find people who have been through it, who have come out successful on the other side, who emulate what you ultimately want to obtain, I think actually being able to take the advice, listen to the advice and implement the advice can be incredibly valuable. So, you know, I have, I have mentors that range, the gamut, right, you know, whether it be and they may not even know the impact they have on my life, right. But you know, whether it be CEOs who specialise in mergers and acquisitions, whether it be, you know, private equity guys who have just figured out how to make a deal making process and unique stances on marketing, whether it be guys who are culturally driven, and recognises, you know, top tier designers, and have created something out of, you know, really challenging situations, but the common cultural icon, in the space we operate, like, I would say, those kinds of people, you know, when you find people that like interest, you intrigue you, there's always something to learn, you may not like the advice, you may not want the advice, you may flat out reject the advice, but it's only going to lead, you know, at least in my experience, doing that only leads to more pain. So, you know, I think when it comes to mentorship, and when it comes to surrounding yourself with the right people, friends are important, can't put too much weight on your friends, but you can have a good time with your friends, therapist is important, you can put a lot on your therapist, and that's what you pay them for. And that's where you should use as an outlet for that mentors, you can get really valuable advice from and finding people that I think represent where you want to go. Likely they've been there before they know the warning signs and the dangers. And you've got to be willing to accept that advice.
Fiona
What do you think of on the mental side of things, peer mentor, so I mean, we might be giving it too many labels, but the person who's maybe just one or two steps ahead of you, maybe even on the same sort of in the same stage of life as you but was is within the community of people who are doing a similar sort of thing. Now, what you do, as we said before, it's very niche. So you probably don't look around and have a whole load of people like that. And would you say in that case, that can be actually one of the one of the things that's hard about being an entrepreneur, is there isn't someone else who's sort of level pegging with you? You don't have that group of peers who are doing something similar.
Michael Schneider
Yeah, it's interesting. I, I almost consider those friends. Right? You know, like, I do have people that I like to support in that. And I think I've realised my strengths, right. And I think that's really important to really, at least for me to find peers that I can socialise with, you know, and not necessarily, like get competitive with, right, I'm naturally a very competitive person, as an entrepreneur. I'm just competitive, I think, probably the biggest thing and that has been realising my strengths, weaknesses probably still have some work to do on but strengths. I know, right? I'm really good at go to market strategy. I know how to how to take a product to market how to make a cultural impact and how to launch it. And that's the biggest challenge. I mean, a lot of people don't even think big enough on that. And that's usually my general feedback is like, hey, you know, you want to get a new product to market? Are you really adapting it to culture the way it needs to to get you where you need to go? So I know that's a strength of mine. Right? And I'm happy to own that in a conversation. Like, you know, you want to talk go to market strategy. Let's talk about that. I know my strengths. They're not really hiring. I wouldn't say hiring or organisational developments or organisational structure and mapping are my strengths, some other things dealmaking, etc, I know it's a strength of mine. And so when I'm able to find people who really have a vision for you know, how to build structurally, their company, etc, I find that fascinating. And so I think that for me, being willing to be impressed, being willing to be open, being willing to be motivated by somebody else who's perhaps more of a peer than someone who's already done, it makes a really, really good friend, it makes somebody that, you know, hopefully you can help. I'd like helping people. So intrinsically, that's where I go to, but I do think that I do think that you'll find things you like, but it's almost hard for me to call that person a mentor, because to me, I don't want to call that person up and just vent about what I'm going through. That's not fair. You know, that's not really fair to them. I'm a little hesitant to call someone who's kind of had the same place a mentor is that's where my mind goes, it's like, okay, well, how do I vent to that person versus a mentor is like, it feels like somebody who could really help you with the challenges versus like somebody who you're engaged with the excitement with and generally I find with peers, we get more. Okay, well, how do we push this forward? How do we how do we get the next thing done, which is almost more like friendship?
Peri Kadaster
I smiled when you said that you're competitive, because that's definitely a trait that I think is very common in entrepreneurs, which is, you know, not necessarily sharp elbows, but kind of eyes on the prize wanting to win and get ahead. And I'm just curious how you think about competition competitiveness as an entrepreneur, for example, NF T's non fungible tokens, are those impacting your space? How are you staying kind of current and ahead of potential threats and risks and competitors? And you know, what leadership lessons can we draw from you in that space?
Michael Schneider
Yeah, it's interesting. So, you know, NF T's had a big impact in collectibles as a whole during COVID, especially, right? And kind of, we saw even like the whole music industry, I was shifted over to NF Ts, those projects got incredibly well funded, etc. And so, obviously, that Mark has declined a little bit, we actually just went through an acquisition of a company that specialises in information, providing around in FTS, I'm still somewhat long on it, right? I'm not, I'm not saying hey, the projects right now, you know, are things you should go invest in, unless you've got a pretty quick strategy with it. But I think that, you know, long term that technology is going to prevail. And so yeah, it's, it's interesting, staying ahead of the curve is probably our biggest challenge, because it happens so quick. And so adapting, like our products and our services to, you know, new fads, trends, etc, can be really challenging. It's definitely been an area that I'd like to even be faster on. You know, I think that's been like an adaptation of product can be really, really challenging, at least for me, you know, and I don't think I've found somebody who can who is really mastered it, at least in my life, where I've been like, oh, that's somebody who was able to adapt their product and change it. Like most people, they find product market fit, and then they go, Okay, I've got product market fit. Let me just roll out this product, and then they never change the product and the product either has legs for a long period of time, or it doesn't. And so I think it is challenging, and when it comes to competition, it's like, you're gonna have people in the saints base, I think that besides product market fit, you know, I've been pitched on a number of technology, solutions, etc, that they all fall the same. I always love to go back to the story of live stream sales, I think it's been something recently people understand it and get it. It's not it's not a new idea, right? Like, it's been around for a while it's 30% of E commerce in Asia, it's not even 10% in the US. And so companies had been running that pitch for a decade. Well, recently, two companies, you know, are in the billion dollar valuation range on it, and everyone else is kind of down the ladder, right whatnot in network, Pop Shop live is behind them on that, and then you've got pretty much everyone else, well, you might have had product market fit, right, you might have had a great product coming to the market with an opportunity at the right time, you know, etc. But what had you know, these to kind of rise above everyone else was it, you know, a talented CEO was a talented product team was it, the product was better? Honestly, I think that it's like, there's got to be a degree of luck, timing and cultural fit. And this is this is where my strength, again, is go to market strategy. So I can look at some figures. And I can be like, well, here's what they did, right? And here's what you should try to emulate, you know, the best thing to ever happen for what not specifically was Logan, Paul, open opening Pokeyman hearts, you know, it started out as we're gonna do live breaks, which already happening on Tiktok, and Instagram and kind of anywhere you could, you could live stream on socially. But that moment happening when they were funding their company with the right amount of funding was able to generate the attention from someone like Logan, Paul, and have been ride that cultural wave be part of that cultural wave to that cultural wave in a way that was bigger than, you know, just a simple moment. And that's what every other platform lacks, you know, if there's any if there was anyone else, it wasn't the product. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't, you know, the leadership, etc. It was simply, you know, cultural moment, how do we create it? How do we ride on it, etc. I think you've got a lot of great entrepreneurs out there with a lot of great ideas, they might be totally right on the idea. I'm actually I don't think there's a shortage of billion dollar ideas in the world. I think there's plenty, I think really getting people to adopt a culture adopt something like that is much different. That's where you need culture to really change and shift and so when you've got live like live stream sales, you know, they've created a cultural edge for themselves based on what was happening. So there's that elements with whatnot and then with network, some similar but different right, you know, founder Network, also founder a complex con clearly understood the culture going into what he was doing, had the credentials, etc. What I think they've done that's been impressive and kind of given them the leg up has been since they have such a deep understanding of the culture, they've been able to partner with the tastemakers, right and partner with the people in the industry, like a Murakami, right, that to make new products and make things accessible, that are exclusive to their platform. And I think that's really given them a position in it. Because if you look at the history of, you know, collectibles of sneakers, etc, they've already cemented their place in it by doing that. And so I think that, you know, two different approaches, both were successful one was riding a cultural wave, the other one was participating in it. But if if you're not effectively able to do either, I think that's where these companies end up failing. And so that's why I always when I'm, when I'm talking to someone about go to market strategy, I'm like, Are you thinking big enough, because I get it, if you can get user acquisition, and if you can get cost down, and customer acquisition costs down, etc, you think you're gonna have success for business fundamentals, that sounds successful, right. But if you really want to cross the chasms, so to speak, if you really want to take it to cultural adaptation, and have one of these unicorns that you know, people are chasing, you need, you need to own the cultural moment.
Fiona
I think that's so fascinating. And when you were talking, I was thinking about literally surfing. So when you sit on your board, and you wait for a wave, you know, that could be a great way if you have to make your judgement call as to whether that is going to be a great wave to ride. And if anyone else is getting on that wave, and then you have to hope that you ride it well, if you're going to ride it, and then you take the energy and the momentum of that wave to take you, you know, to the shore. But I think from a psychological perspective, I find all of that absolutely fascinating as well as the cultural wave what that means at a collective level. And how you're, you do need to tap into it because until until if you don't jump on it You can't, you can't be the person creating that there has to be some momentum behind it already. And it's where is it at? And can you spot where it's at? And can you make the leap at the right time? But I mean, I would think, and this is from a naive perspective, that there's also elements, like you said, there's luck timing, as well, there is an element of judgement to, whether you're jumping on that wave or not?
Michael Schneider
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, like, there's nothing wrong with a single or a double play, right, you know, a collection of single plays will lead you to plenty of success in your life, you know, and you can build those without those big cultural moments. I think as entrepreneurs and a VC influence culture, we're trained to chase the glint Grand Slam. And what I'm talking about is how to achieve the Grand Slam. But there's nothing wrong with going for the single or the double play, either. It may not be a fit to the VC model. And it may not be a fit to be, you know, Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk in not everyone needs that, right? I forget the name of the founder, but a big founder, who was out of San Francisco was giving a commencement speech to it to a graduating class of entrepreneurs, and was basically like, look, some of you need to go be Elon Musk, or Mark Zuckerberg, right, like, some of you need that in your life. And that's totally fine. But some of you will be just fine. Having a few wins. Right, having a few easy wins. So it's not, it depends on what you think, is a necessity. Right? And kind of what your level is. And I think, you know, often, there's so much reward, especially from like venture capitalists in chasing the big wave, right. And there is a way to do it. Like there's a method to that madness. But you know, it's not necessarily for everybody. It shouldn't be right, it's not that I don't think it's the healthiest way of living by any means. There's a method to doing it in whatnot, but you could go for a much smaller wave to you could go on a paddleboard and define, right, you know, like, it's, there's, there's other approaches to life besides just grandiose entrepreneurship, that are totally going to lead you to a path where you may own your home at the end of it, you may be happy, you'll you'll have a family, you may have a more balanced life than somebody who went and chased the big wave. If you want to get into the billion dollar valuation range, guess what, you got to hit the wave, right? If you want to get to selling your company for 10 to 20 million, you may be able to paddle your way out there. It's it's just a matter of what your targets in your sights are.
Fiona
I find that fascinating. I mean, one of the people that one of the groups that have come onto our platform early on, are called Impact finance Pro. And they're about philanthropy, having making deals that have different deal structure to the traditional VC investment where there's more sustainability, both in terms of the company itself, but also what it's offering in terms of social impact or cold climate impact. I've been talking to all sorts of people in the space. And it is fascinating. I do think that the type of entrepreneurship you're describing is right. For some people. It's like that lady who said, you know, for the commencement speech, it's exciting, it's competitive. It's, it takes certain skills to be able to do it, and to able, but it's also important to be able to enjoy it. And if you're not enjoying it, it's like, it comes back to what you were saying earlier. It's if it is not lighting you up, if it's draining you more than it is giving you if the stress is negative rather than positive stress, because we know there's positive stress, then maybe it's not for you. But that doesn't mean you're a failure. And it doesn't mean I mean, there's a there's a group. I don't know if it's global, I think it is it's called zippers unite. Have you heard of that? I think yeah, I think it'd be interesting it. It's a group that say, you know, we don't just have to have unicorns, we can have separatists, too. And the zebras are actually real. There's a fantastic medium article, titled, zebras fix what unicorns break. And it comes back to what you're saying as well about the capitalist model. And I think, I think there's room for different approaches, but it's really fascinating. Once you start delving into an understanding, which I think a lot of people don't, they only see the unicorn, the entrepreneur, the VC backed the exits, you know, within however many years. So, that's really, really great as well for me that you came back to. It's not necessarily right for everyone because that totally resonates with What you were saying earlier on, it's like finding what was right for you. And clearly you enjoy this environment?
Michael Schneider
Yeah, 100% And I think that like, you know, society really idolises the entrepreneur right now, like Elon, I had a friend who's the credibly successful, 23 year old entrepreneur who I admire, I want to support in his career entirely, totally trust his leadership, which is amazing for me to say, at some point at that age, because I wouldn't know no one would have said that about me at that age. I mean, no one would have would have been so blind. Really a fascinating individual, and I was talking to him, and what we were, what we were discussing, really brought me back to what what, you know, what's possible for somebody who's, who's able to go after it. And I, I think that like, one thing he pointed out to me about entrepreneurs was that they're the new rockstars. Right? Elon Musk autograph is actually the most expensive autograph in the world right? Now, if you want to look at markets have autographs Right? Which is kind of amazing, right? That you would have talked 30 years ago, that would have never been the case, no one cared about, you know, John McAfee or Marc Andreessen, or Peter Till's autograph, right, or Bill Gates even. And so it's, I think the world's changed to where we idolise these people who have made this giant difference. And it's, it's reflective in our markets, right? It's reflective, and even just that tidbit, but to imagine that that is the only means success. It's an impossible feat. Right? It's not even the point. 1% I mean, it's some iota of that. And so, you know, it's, it's nice to learn from those people, but their style, their approach, their work ethic, doesn't work in most situations, right. That's not how you should show up in most ways, that is a very rare, you know, version of success. And I think that people ultimately, you know, while we do idolise them as the modern day rockstars. I do think that, you know, having a level headedness and a business practicality about you can be really valuable to and look, that's not to say you don't have an impact as big as the next Facebook or Tesla, right? Like, if you do more power to you go for it. But it's incredibly rare to find that incredibly rare. And, you know, yes, it's rewarded like Rockstar culture here. And it's not for everybody. And it doesn't need to be you can find success as an entrepreneur without it. I've seen plenty of people do it, you can hit a single play, you can hit a double play one or two of those, you're good, gotten the level of success you needed. And that would be you know, my, my litmus test for most people is like, really being honest with where your plays out, and making it make sense, because those companies do last for a long time. I've got plenty of admiration for people who have, you know, made innovations in real estate who have made innovations and, and more boring businesses like legal, the legal industry, etc. Like, I think that creating those more sustainable business zebras, as you mentioned, is really admirable. And it definitely keeps the economy going. Not everything has to be a home run.
Fiona
I found that absolutely fascinating, Peri?
Peri Kadaster
Absolutely. I'm really interesting. Just everything stemming from the story of your father first getting that Power Rangers toys and Canada to kind of where we are now. And your your thoughts on the fact that success has different definitions. I think you've really covered a lot of the realities of entrepreneurship, the good and the bad, the pretty and the ugly that we don't always talk about. So thank you. Thank you for your time. I think that's it's just incredible.
Michael Schneider
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you to your audience. For listening. I hope there's been some valuable I hope there's valuable tidbits, I hope there's some groundedness in it, and some encouragement, you know, I think success can have a lot of different definitions and really defining that for yourself is important. So thank you guys for having me.
Fiona
And where can people find you Michael, if they want to if they want to follow you on Twitter or follow you on LinkedIn or, or if it's just a case of actually having a look at Secret Sauce?
Michael Schneider
You can have a have a look at secret sauce. That's totally fine at secret sauce. GRP. I'm on LinkedIn, Michael L Schneider, or you can you can find me on Instagram at hype Rogen, like Seth Rogen. Because I look and sound like him. So I decided to go with that. So I'm all you do. By my inbox is open. I'm always willing to chat with people on their journey. So I appreciate you guys giving me the platform and the opportunity.
Fiona
Oh, we really appreciate your time. And hopefully when Peri and I both in LA at the same time, we can take you out for lunch or coffee or something, or something.
Michael Schneider
That'd be great.
Fiona
Yeah, if you drink drinking.
Michael Schneider
I'm sober at the moment, but definitely, definitely will take you up on that.
Fiona
Thank you so much. Have a great day over there. I'm going into my evening you're going into your day.
Michael Schneider
Yeah. Thank you. You too.