Andrew Patterson is a media and technology strategist who was the first ever CEO at Jomboy Media, the New York-based multimedia sports and entertainment company. But that's not how Andrew’s career started out. After graduating from North Carolina, Andrew began working in finance when in his mid 20s he found himself working with Major League Baseball. Something he describes as a happy accident. At MLB (Major League Baseball) Advanced Media he built the league’s collective social media following from 3 million to more than 136 million across 11 global digital platforms.
In this episode, we embark on Andrew's incredible journey into the world of social media and sports. From the fast-paced business of sports streaming to the art of storytelling in the realm of Major League Baseball, we uncover the secrets of connecting with diverse audiences.
But that's not all. We delve into the transition from professional athlete to entrepreneur and explore personal development gems. Andrew shares insights on finding the right job, the ever-evolving journey of self-awareness, and the power of learning from mistakes.
Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that promises valuable takeaways for your own journey.
To find out more about progressing your personal growth with the help of a mentor or to be a mentor find us at Oka Life.
Andrew Patterson Transcript
Fiona 00:15
Today, I am thrilled to be joined by Andrew Patterson. Hello, Andrew. Oh, nice to meet you.
Andrew Patterson 00:22
Very nice to meet you.
Fiona 00:23
Thank you for being on and we're going to hear a bit more about you in a second. And I've got my wonderful friend, and sometimes colleague, Peri Kadaster.
Peri Kadaster 00:34
Hello, everyone,
Fiona 00:35
Who I think you're very excited to meet Andrew too.
Peri Kadaster 00:39
Yes. I've been looking forward to meeting Andrew for some time.
Fiona 00:42
Yeah. Okay. So Andrew, we briefly spoke about your last role was before we came on CEO, Jomboy, I think it'd be great to come back to that. But what are you doing at the moment?
Andrew Patterson 00:57
So now I'm consulting and advising in the media, sports and entertainment space. So I have a lot of loves that have kind of popped up. And so keeping myself abreast and dabbling is really fun. So helping companies, entrepreneurs, and like, build their businesses, grow them and scale them. And so taking a lot of what I've learned from the steps that I've been at, and kind of bringing them together, creation.
Fiona 01:20
That's really interesting. And I think, I mean, it's kind of sometimes seen as a bit of a mystical area, isn't it social media, everyone wants to understand it, but no one can get to grips with it. Reading the numbers that you've created in some of the followings of the organisations you've worked with is quite phenomenal.
Andrew Patterson 01:42
I appreciate it. It's not about me, but it's really about the community. When I look at social media, it's a way for people to connect to conversation. So it's no different than what we're doing now. And so when you have a conversation is how do you have a conversation that reaches touches and resonates with a lot of people. And so what I think is really fun is that these conversations can sometimes be one person talking to another, when you put it out on a podcast, or you put out Spotify, that on any other platform, you reach a lot more people. And so if you remember that what you're doing is really having conversation. I think you find hidden ways and small ways to make a difference. And so that's what it is beginning of the end. The organisations that hard work always work when they think about the community. And you keep that conversation simple.
Fiona 02:28
Yeah, I love that. And I think for me, community is massively important. And I was quite anti social media for quite a long time. And then I met and Giles shout out to Giles, Giles produces this for me. Giles is the kindest man I've ever met. And he's on Twitter, and he's got quite a big following on Twitter. And he just spreads goodness around and I was actually, well, this social media business, isn't that bad? It depends on the intent, it depends on the audience. And it depends on the community and how people are connecting with one another.
Unknown Speaker 03:07
Absolutely. You know, when you, social media is a technology, it's it's not a thing that happens, we make it happen, you know, to be able to spread that out there, I think is a really interesting thing to do. But the technology is somewhat different from the conversation. So technology used in one place can be very helpful, or it can be very harmful. But I think, you know, as people as we find ways to make that conversation helpful, but technology becomes really important, becomes really transformational. So when you lean into the aspects of that looking there, it's like how can this technology help this community? I think that's how I think about it. And I think that's where you really find, start to find interesting ways to benefit people drive forward, scale change and interest.
Fiona 03:53
That's, fascinating. Peri, I know you'll have thoughts and you'll be much more to the point with your questions, and I am far away with something.
Peri Kadaster 04:03
No, absolutely. I think the what's interesting about what you mentioned on community is it's just such a rarity these days where it feels like conversations can be so divisive or so polarising. I'm thinking about Twitter specifically right now where you know, we're seeing a lot of just sometimes some negative aspects of community in addition to positive aspects I'll put it that way. Um, how at Jomboy did you guys think about it and not just to Jomboy, but in your other roles? Have you thought about kind of leveraging social for good, and especially as I think about sports and media, where it's so divisive? I mean, as a Duke fan and a as a UNC fan, you we know how heated the conflicts can get. So how do you manage kind of some of the the natural vitriol that comes up with words and balance that with the positive aspects of community building?
Fiona 05:04
And can I just add in, sorry to jump in there? Also, could you tell us a bit about jumbo because for the audience that are not from the US, they won't have heard of it, they won't understand how it all works. So if you give it a little bit of background while hanging on, there is great question and answering that.
Andrew Patterson 05:24
So perfect. So I'll start a quote with a quote from the founder of Jomboy media, Jr, Brian that I think was instrumental in doing and kind of really solidified for me what makes sense for Jomboy how they approach it, which he said, "The goal is to be fun, not funny, fun is something that everybody can get behind, funny might happen at someone's expense." And I thought it was a really simple way to kind of talk about exactly what you mentioned, which when everybody can enjoy it, then you can have fun in conversation when it's tried to be done at someone's expense. That's where it starts to become little people disagree all the time. You talk about community, the first community that we're all a part of as a family. And if anybody says they never get in fights with family, that is how you spot a liar. You know, you love, you know, as deeply as you love the people in your family, you sometimes also disagree with them, whether those are siblings, or parents or grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and alike. But there is a unifying piece there, which is that we are part of this family, we are a part of this community. And more often than not, you always come back to that that's a place that you feel safe and secure. And you can have those conversations, as you start to make that larger. Again, keeping that same idea of concept is that while we can disagree, we are still a community, there's still something that binds us together, we like that's when I find people connect, you know, parts that we disagree on is things that people sometimes focus on. But the parts we agree on, is also something you know, as you said, Peri went to Duke and I went to North Carolina, and you know, from a sports team standpoint, I've got not a good word to say about the basketball programme, so to speak. Nonetheless, I would agree that we are both huge basketball fans, we are both huge ACC fans, we are both huge sports fans. And again, as much as those losses hurt, you know that the folks on the other side, care about the sport, care about the team, it matters. And so you know, you only have one side of the stadium sharing. It's not as fun, the wins feel good, because I know how much the losses hurt. I know. And so that balance there is what I think makes it great. And so when you think about community, that's what I think defines it. Personally, what I feel is that, you know, with where social media can sometimes get a little off the rails, it what drives conversations. And so what drives conversation sometimes are those moments that are emotive, so happy emotions can drive it sad emotions, but negative emotions can also drive and so where you choose to put that, again, it's a technology. It's you know, it's not the entirety of it, when those are put into places that may not be as productive is where you can see it. But nonetheless, you know, as you said, yourself that you're gonna, you can see that when someone takes ideas that are good, and things that inspire people, things that make people happy, and they put it out there and get just as much leverage and motive out there. I think it's sometimes just easier to go to, to go to those moments that are confrontational. But if you kind of keep in mind, where you're driving what the community or certain things you're talking about, I think can find some really great conversations and some really cool things.
Fiona 08:41
It's no wonder that you've been so successful with your social media. You came, and correct me if I'm wrong from after you were University in North Carolina. I'm not sure which steps were were but you were major league baseball official. Is that correct?
Andrew Patterson 08:56
No. So I was I worked in product development and networking, social media and Major League Baseball. So I was a very happy accident. So I'll tell you a little bit. So when I first left North Carolina, I, I was in finance. And so I worked at a fund to funds doing financial data analytics, and as much fun and as interesting. And it was it just wasn't necessarily what I love to do. I like stories. And for me, numbers are stories just by a different. So when you start digging through it, you can find all sorts of interesting kinds of things. And so when I talked about social and community, there's a million stories out there to be found. So after I was in finance, I left finance and I went to try to do a startup and in doing a startup and being 24, 25. At the time, it was a lot you don't know. So there's a lot of us figuring out and so I had to learn marketing and I worked to digitise for a bit. And then as I was developing a website, I was paying engineers a lot and I didn't know what to do that product. development. I had asked for one thing today and another thing tomorrow. And we're like, well, that's a lot more money. And it's like, I don't understand why. And so I wanted to figure out why. And so to figure out why I figure there's some place I had to go to, to learn that. And so I found a place called bam, timing it, no, but it was the digital arm of baseball. And it was amazing. A technology company was a media company, which was two sides of a coin that's out there. And it was sports. And so when you think about major league baseball, you have over 2600 games a year 2600 stories, different people telling stories every day is a new story. What is that story? And how do you tell? How do you connect with people? And how do you do it for big markets? How do you do for small markets? And how do you have for winning teams? How do you do it for losing teams? How do you do it for teams that have a star player? And how do you do it for teams that are a collection of utility players that are just crushing it. And so to be able to see each of those stories, and to be able to talk to the teams, and to see that within a league concept, to see how each of those stories individually add up to what happens if the league was the best class ever. It was amazing. So I started there, and product development, and then I helped build out the social media team. I was there and I was employee number one. And then over the course of the next eight and a half years, we got to build it out. And we got to see the marketing side of it, and the business side of it and the technical side of it. And so it was a it was such an amazing learning experience. And so that's how I kind of fell in to sports wasn't it wasn't if I said it was purposeful, I'd be lying. You know, it was accidental, but between data and interest in stories and interest and community. Again, I was also lucky at the time I started. Social media wasn't very big. You know, I think Facebook had a few years before, but it used to be about Facebook, and then they bought Facebook and Twitter was there and there's no Instagram and there's no, you know, Tumblr is kind of there. There's no Snapchat, there's not a lot of what we see today. They're not big businesses then. And so to be there before, I describe it as a scrapbook bam. And social media in those days is Woodstock. For you know, it was Woodstock. No, like afterwards, everyone's like, this is the greatest thing ever. And this is so instrumental. And at the time, you're literally just walking down, you know, stopping by there. And I'd say that I was extremely fortunate that often the people I got to work with, that was the start of what is now becoming something
Fiona 12:26
Incredible, really interesting. I have I have a question for you on that. When you were 24, 25, when you said there's a lot that you didn't know, did you know that there were things that you didn't know?
Andrew Patterson 12:42
Yes, I mean, somewhat rhetorical. I didn't know what they were. But I knew there was a lot out there. I knew there was more to learn. You know, like that's, that's what I think it is. I asked probably too many questions. I've always said like, I don't think they're stupid questions. I just think that you just don't know if you don't ask. And so if you don't know, you should probably ask whether you feel that question is silly or not. And so I asked a lot of silly questions, which sometimes lead to interesting places. And sometimes they lead to kind of just mundane answers, but I really enjoyed asking. And then as I asked them, I kind of learned more. And even in talking to folks such as yourself or anybody else that you ask those questions, you learn a lot more, and it kind of keeps on digging, and you don't know where it ends. You know, you look back, you're like, Oh, of course, you ended up here. It's like I had no idea. You know, what I would be doing or what I wanted to do, I knew there were things I was curious about, as I found places and people who are willing to answer those questions or, you know, pique their curiosity or fulfil it. That's how I've kind of moved.
Fiona 13:47
That's the way I mean, I asked because I think particularly in the entrepreneurial world, there can be a level of arrogance when you're 24,25. I'm not saying you were like that, but you know, we can look back on ourselves. I look back at myself at that time at before I became a psychologist, and I was quite arrogant. And I look now and I think, Wow, there's so much I didn't know.
Andrew Patterson 14:10
So when you phrase it like that, 100% You know, the person 100%. But one of the ways that I would phrase it is winning is more important than being right. You know, when you're 24 and you're 25, but you want to be right, you know, I have the answer. And it's my answer. And I want to see my name on there. And that's what I want there. As you go through career, and as you learn more, you realise that winning is a lot more important that if we win, it doesn't really matter who's right here. What matters is that we win. So when I think about the organisations that place things I like to do, I like to win. I don't care if I'm I don't care, it's in there. Those things don't matter because the winning feels good. And the truth is that in a community wait when the team wins, everybody's happy, you know, a victory where going to use a sports. You know, if you put up a lot of points and your team doesn't win, I don't know many players that are like, yeah, it was a really great, I was really happy with my points and you find that with time comes that experience, the hard part is that I don't know, there's any really way to get it other than experiencing it. So you start off there and you kind of go, but it's a process. And everybody kind of learns and figures out in their own way. Again, I feel I've been fortunate to have people who've been helpful in that process, just kind of understanding of framing and phrasing it and thinking through them,
Fiona 15:33
I would put it, if I'm coming at it from my professional perspective, I think you have what we'd call in personality and openness to experience. And also a an affability, which those two things combined are not luck, they enable. Because it's getting under the skin of things, it's, it's also actually being willing to be proven wrong. So whilst you may say you wanted to win, from what I'm reading, is that you would be very, you might say, I don't like being wrong when you were 24, 25. But you wouldn't just flat out deny it. And that mindset just can cast someone's career trajectory in so much more of a positive, it can just go somewhere, exponential, if you keep that mindset of curiosity, openness to experience and being a good person to other people.
Andrew Patterson 16:34
Yeah, I mean, I think I want to be better, you know, I want it to be better means that you have to be better, which means you have to improve. So wherever you look at said, I look at a year ago, five years, 10 years, I think I'm a better person in communicating, a better person in the work I do. So that means that I had to change and so you're not perfect in that way. And so it's a constant evolution. And so, I think that process is kind of fun. You know, as you said, if you're wrong, then you just learned a lot. You know, it's important to know, you know, where you're writing what you want to do, it's also important for your rock, you don't want to deal with those experiences. Those experiences are fantastic. So helpful, is that when you're wrong, why were you wrong? Or what did you think wrong about and then the next time I see something like that, I don't have to do it that. So I think that's extremely interesting. To be in, I think it's fun. A job where I would do the same thing every day, it's mundane is just doesn't seem interesting, no one where the biggest and the best parts are all ahead of you. And there's so much to learn so much to figure out, people are excited about it. And you know, we're gonna be wrong, but we'll switch over here, and we'll learn how to do this. And we'll learn how to do that. That, to me sounds exciting. That's a place that you want to be those are people that you want to work with. That's a challenge, and an opportunity worth waking up for and really getting after. So when I think about what interests me and what I hope for, it's those experiences that excite me the most,
Fiona 18:11
I'm gonna leave a little gap. So Peri, I know that your mind will be whirring. What are you thinking?
Peri Kadaster 18:19
I just think it's fascinating. I love hearing the story of kind of the meandering nature of your career and how you started in finance. And you kind of went ahead and rounded out your skill set in marketing, dove into sports as well. And I just I wonder if you know, I'm someone who's a recovering consultant turned for an entrepreneur so I can relate a little bit to that. But I'm curious, you know, did you have a North Star? Did you have something that was a constant in your life during this during some of these career changes? And, you know, specifically, are there people who are inspirations to you, or mentors to you who kind of kept you grounded, as you made twists and turns along the way?
Andrew Patterson 19:06
Absolutely. I think one of when I first started at North Carolina, I was in a programme and one of the people there when we were looking for jobs, he said to a group of collective of people, he said, there's three things that you look for in a job. You want to find a job you like doing, people you like and respect working for a place you live. And when you start off, you're not going to find all three necessarily, but over time, you want to get to the point where you're all three. And he said that is what will make you happy. And I found it extremely instructive, because it wasn't about money. It wasn't about role. It wasn't about title. It wasn't about industry. It was about fundamentally as a person, the things that inspired again, job you like doing, people you like and respect working for and the place you'd like living. I'm a city boy, I grew up in New York and New York has always been a home to me. And so I was very fortunate to have my first one there. And then when I think about the theme that runs through, I have loved the people that I've worked with, I have loved the jobs that I have done. And that has been my constant and been my Northstar, if I can find people and places, and everything else is just wrapping for an opportunity to learn something new, do something different. So for me, when I think about a career, like yes, there are steps, they logically move, but I didn't know what they were going to add up to. And when I started off in finance, it was looking at numbers and portfolios and trying to find like, point 2% increase here versus there. That skill set, certainly higher career, you know, now you got to advertising digital, and you can find 15-20%, that's a lot bigger, it's a lot easier. And so, like, finance prepared me for doing that, you know, you think about advertising about what are communities, what drive people, when you're looking through, click through rates and copying, and you're looking through what images look like, and how does that help and there's an entire discipline and all sorts of things and KPIs that people are looking for, and ways they have of doing that, that all kind of rounded together. And so that helps as well, and sports and social conversations, you know, to be to have a good rivalry like Carolina, Duke and to know in your soul how much it means that no, you lose, you're not going out tonight, we're staying in and we're, we're so good at it, because we are part of the team and we lost tonight, and to know how much it means and you win a national championship. But I was fortunate to do while I was at North Carolina and like the exuberance and the sheer joy of that and to be able to see and to be able to tell someone that you know, when someone wins a World Series, what that means to them, what that trade needs, and like. You know, commission - see, like said two things, that jobs give people and that is hope and faith. You know, hope that you will be better next year and faith that the system is there and do the right things you can move forward. But I find those are elemental things. Those are not about jobs and careers, those are about people. So I'm going to be talking about community and what I think about it like the people, or what's made the journey, the job has been fantastic. But the people that I deal with so many of them. I don't know how you make more, but other people took a time to let you stop in their office and throw darts at the dartboard chat with you about what's going on. The people who took the time to take that questionnaire and spend an extra, you know, 20-30 minutes a day has done to kind of go through it. There are so many small moments and so many people have been a part of it. But if I think there's a constant there, that's where it's been. And as I found as I've tried to lean into those people, they lean back. And that's that's what's benefited.
Fiona 22:54
That's fascinating. And it's also completely resonates with what I've written about whoever said that, very wise, I'm being slightly sarcastic there because I'm English. So one I mean that they are very wise, I just meant from my perspective. What do you think so before North Carolina, what was your what were your influences, then? Because within the working environment, we I think we become more aware of who shaped us and how people might have influenced or shaped us. But ironically, we don't necessarily reflect as much on who's made us become who we are. So if if we're thinking about your openness to experience your enjoyment of people, your enjoyment of community, do you see threads that run from earlier on in life?
Andrew Patterson 23:56
My parents, it was my parents. I had two fantastic parents. Yeah. I think it's, it's better to be lucky than to be smart. But even better is to be smart enough to know when you get lucky. And I feel very blessed and fortunate parents I've had. I think that's a lot of that personalities. But obviously between both my parents, my mom is obviously extremely social. I can call my mom at like one o'clock 1.30 and she's still up. She says she's issues getting older now, she'll still have times where she'll have a party that people do four o'clock in the morning. She's tall, she's just checking. She's talking to so many people. And again, there's always been a love of people and have the access to those people and to be able to talk to them and to give them my best and kind of go back and forth. From a parent's standpoint, I guess in school, the only I guess the only real rule is that like I just have to try my best. See, wherever it ended up whether I succeeded or failed, that was fine. As long as I know, I did my best there. So it was not an extrinsic, but a very intrinsic motivation. And I think keeping moving. So as I said, like when I want to get better, if I know I can get better, I want to get better. And then I mean, that's it, like, really simply. And yeah, that's, that's kind of the real motivation, I think early on. And then those experiences, I've done a lot of things I know, I think that when I was younger, a lot more sports and I was good at. So I'll definitely put it that way. But they were all fun experiences, to try new things, to do different things, went to a number of schools that has gone up and I've had a number of different friends. And so even now, I have some friends I've had since I was in pre K. So I was three, I have some friends I've had from elementary school, that some friends from high school, some friends I've had from programmes, and as you build that collection people around you as a person, there's no group that I would want to just solve these issues. But they're all little pieces and parts I find when I add them up together, the more complete version of myself. And so all of those people, I think are in those friends and people as well as are all inspirations. They're all people that you see in real pride, and the people that I've known and friends that I've had, as you see them do well, it's an inspiration to keep trying and keep pushing. And so I think the community that I've had, has been a very important part of that success. And also framing the more important is the first.
Fiona 26:38
And what about your level of self awareness? Because you are self aware?
Andrew Patterson 26:42
I hope I am
Fiona 26:43
You certainly seem it! So I mean, has that been something that you've always been conscious of that you want? You want to understand? You?
Andrew Patterson 26:56
I guess? I do? Um, I think that's probably module wide? Open? Yes. I don't, I haven't always been that self aware. But I think I've gotten better at it. When something doesn't happen, or something goes wrong. I tried, there's a lot of things I can't control. Let's put it that way. It's a lot of things I can't control. But what I can control, is I can control how I react, I can control how I think about things, and I can control what I do going forward. And so as challenges come like challenges are there and the past is the past, but how I choose to move forward really is about what I can do better. And how I can be better at that. When you talk about a level of arrogance in youth, as you come up on challenges, and you reflect on what can I do better? Or how can I be better in that moment? I think as you've done that, that's where probably become more self aware. If that is the right word. It's not a point. It's a journey. So like when you say self aware, it is not a point I am at. If that is a journey, I hope to keep on and stay on. And yes, I'd be happy to, to say that, that I am self aware. I'm sure there's a lot of places I'm not. But I hope that over time I get better at those places as well. But I think the challenge is there have been points that that have helped me kind of come to that and understand it. Because as I get better at those things, I get to round out myself as a person, you don't make the same mistake twice, I'll make a lot of mistakes. You know, I'm a very flawed individual, there are a lot of things I add. I'm not necessarily great at a lot of things. But if I can recognise them, I can try to make it better. And as a person as a whole it kind of is important.
Fiona 26:58
I mean, that really resonates with me, because I'm so excited about people understanding that you said earlier actually that the growth is fun, that evolution. And I think it is, I think if we go into old age eventually with that mindset, we are happy, we are fulfilled. And I mean an English character. I don't know if you've heard of him, but David Attenborough, he's 96. And I look at him and I think that's how I want to be when I'm 96, because he still loves what he does. He's still massively interested and intrigued by what's going on around him. And the second bit where you said, I'm a flawed individual. Well, I can say, as a psychologist, I'm not very good at practising what I preach, and I'm constantly trying to learn and I would love to say that I don't make the same mistake twice. I do. But it's lovely to hear that that humility as well. You saying that. I'm gonna pass Peri again because I know that you'll have other interesting things to say.
Peri Kadaster 29:41
Well, what's interesting to me is that you're describing a journey. But if I think about kind of taking a step back, sports media in general, that sector in and of itself is on a journey, it is not a static place. I mean, you think about how much things have changed since the days of Moneyball book, for example, and how digital kind of took over sports. I'm curious, what are some of the trends that you've seen evolve are some of the kind of like, moments of truth that you've noticed, in, in the media in sports media kind of world that you that you work in?
Andrew Patterson 30:45
There are too many. I would monologue on it. It's sports media ism, I say storytelling, I think sports, sports media is one of the most interesting places, every day is a story. You think about a consumer product, put it out once, two or three versions a year, on your marketing, we'll talk about it. Sports Media is live individuals and live people. And the players and the product that is on the field is as much a part of it. It's personality, it's driven, it's dynamic, it moves time, one of the most interesting things I think is, you know, in a world where more things move to on demand, soon, the only thing that really remains live is sports, is you have to be there. And you have to see we have to watch it. You know, and it's, it's in many ways when it's appointment viewing it's fantastic. You know, when you watch the World Series, and I've been fortunate to go to them, and you feel the electricity there, there's something very live and so dynamic about it. And what I think that a lot of people don't see is on the business side, it's even more so you go into the merch world? And what if you go into the world of streaming and not as a band to go into streaming technology? So look at like, what are the challenges? How does it move? And how do you have a game that, you know, today might have 1000 people watching on it, watching it? But if it's a perfect game, you might it might go up to like 10,000 or a million people? And how do you manage a technical scale to be able to do that and move and that entire business which we got acquired, the technology piece were acquired by Disney is like to be on the front end of that is wildly fascinating. You know, when the iTunes Store, first launch, and Apple first launch, or the first 10 apps was the Major League Baseball ad, that app to connect to people there. So when you think of technology and what the apps mean, how do people use something like there's a whole world of constantly evolving? Think about VR? AR? What does that mean? And how do you do it? There's an entirely another sector of that, when you think about fashion and like, how do you like were with people in personalities also drive fashion? How do you work that in? It is a business that has so much depth, you know, and that, I think the coolest thing is to see it on screen. And people think it's you know, it's just people playing a game, it's men or women playing a game and so much that underlies it there. There's so many disciplines, there's so many people who have to stay on their toes who have to be reactive to what is going on, we have to be thoughtful about planning. You know, you start out with a plan, and all of a sudden your team is two and 15, you gotta have a new plan. You know, like you think about our product failure. In a lot of businesses, if you have a product failure, you got a real problem. We got to sell tickets every day. How do we sell tickets that this team isn't doing? Well, you have to be extremely creative, extremely thoughtful, you have to tap into not just what people come to see wins, but why they love the team. The depth of of kind of analysis and information. You think of it from a set of data is how do you tell that story data? How do you find those stories? How do you drive them? How do you create novel and new ways of dealing? That's what I think is so interesting that it every time does I've been very fortunate to work in sports, but the depth of the quality of people, the amount of experience they have and bring to bear there and then doing it every day. You know, doing it over the course of a full season is incredible. There's some of the favourite people I know anytime you can at work for him to become real sense. You know, you're some pretty special and I've been very fortunate.
Fiona 34:39
I on that point, I think Peri, Peri's an example for me, she might not consider me one of her real friends. I consider her when she has to say that because it's being recorded.
Peri Kadaster 34:56
It's on the record.
Fiona 34:57
Your on the record. It's interesting because I was listening to I have a lady who is a reporter for cricket and various other English sports on radio five Live, which in the UK is like our very much live sports channel. And she was being asked by her interviewers, like, you also commentated on the coronation and people said, but that's, you know, they're so diverse, because one is sport, one is like the king, becoming the king. And she's like, Well, no, they're not. Because you don't know what's gonna happen. And it's, it's, it's so interesting.
Andrew Patterson 35:36
It's a, that's a such a beautiful way to put it like, you know, yes, that's all I can do is agree with it. But that the range, the range that you have to have to be able to do it is incredible. You know, when you're launching a product, it's funny, you say when the opening day, opening day is not the baseball season started, the baseball season starts. So you got to be ready, it's going out, you know, of game time is here. And this time the game is starting, you don't have the luxury to like, we're going to push it back two hours, we're going to push it back a day and has to happen. And so like the idea that, you know, when something goes on, you're just there commenting, you said an announcer is a perfect example, you have no idea what is going to go on in that game, not nearly a clue. What you hope to do is enough preparation and be prepared. So that when that moment comes, you can rise and meet it adequately. The best people are there to do that and you see those people that are on the mic. But I think the same ethos embodies everybody working in that organisation, works for the video people, for the copywriters, for the event planners, for the marketing people that like and that it's a team. It's a large team, but it's a team. And as I said, winning, getting to being a successful launch is more important than happening there. And when we can put it in the books, then that's what we're really going after that mentality that happens on the field trickles in and pervades the organisation as well. And I think it makes it great. It's a fun.
Fiona 37:07
I guess a question in that is, it's fun. I love pressure. So I work really well under pressure. But I have to remind myself sometimes that actually, we need time to reflect. So you talked a little bit earlier about reflecting on mistakes or reflecting on challenges. Do you see much reflection going on in sport, because there I mean, there's a saying by this guy, I think it's John Dewey, who said, "We do not learn from doing we learn from reflecting on what we've done."
Andrew Patterson 37:39
It's, I think that's the balance, you know, something that is moving constantly, it's important to stop and to kind of reflect you do have models and doing it instead of baseball is a large part of what it did. I also worked at a technology company, Green Fly as well, which was also like another instrumental, it's a completely different way. You know, in that one where you're focused completely on a product, and you have multiple sports organisations that are all in different parts of their cycle. So you may be working with an NBA team, baseball, nearly team, they're all in different places. But for that one, when you look at that having cycles in place, organisation where you stop and reflect is extremely important to, to get caught up in the moment, but still being take stock. Take stock events is important. How often it's done. I think it really happens on a personal level. It's it's hard to see from the outside. That's what I it's very public. Those those roles, and it's hard to see from the outside where people sit, where people take those time. I think to do it at a high level you kind of have to if you don't, you're gonna burn out. You can't stand next all the time. So, you know, I think for anybody that you see that has longevity, sports media, there have to reflect how people do it is very, very different. But that they do it. I think it's fundamentally
Fiona 39:13
Interesting that and then on what came to mind there was there's a really interesting guy who I interviewed on the podcast, who currently lives in Canada, He's from Australia, and he coaches I think, I'm gonna, my memory is gonna really play up on me, but I'm pretty sure he coaches coaches, but he's had to deal with a lot of adversity in terms of the pressure because of being so central. So front and centre, you don't have anywhere to hide. And then the pressure of not necessarily always being able to support the people that are working for him because they're exposed in the same way. And so, and that then potentially leads to this burnout because there isn't a systemic approach to saying how do we look after people?
Andrew Patterson 40:03
Absolutely. I mean, I think it's important past about the people who were important or foundational, those other communities are important as well. So to step out of it. I've got two little boys and those moments where they come to school, you can be present there. Those are times to take a break, to take care. I think that when we jump in, it's like, you'll get back to it again. But that mental break makes it it's not an unending time with their family and friends are important, keep those relationships, they can be grounded, they keep you centred. They keep you remembering all of the other parts of life, that are great, as well. And so taking time for those things as well is important. If you have communities of people around you, that help you do that, find it's a lot easier. The pressures and stressors, there's still pressure, and they're still things that extreme what, but perspective is also very helpful. This is important, but there are also many other things out there. So that's like that time for reflection assignment, taking myself away to other places, quite frankly, like a dog walk. I didn't know it before. But like those moments with the dog in the morning at 45 minutes, that you are a great time to just like, God's not asking you anything. You know, you might
Fiona 41:26
He might be, you're just not listening.
Andrew Patterson 41:29
Exactly, you know, it's an early morning walk, or however you do, and it's different for everybody. But I think that you definitely do have to find that place that gives you that that breath on, to reflect upon it.
Peri Kadaster 41:45
I guess speaking of advice, where we're at an interesting point in sports, where several of the players are now themselves becoming entrepreneurs. You've got people like Spencer Dinwiddie who wants to be paid in crypto, you've got players who are avidly investing in new ventures themselves. I'm curious what kind of advice you have for players like that, that are starting to get their feet wet in the entrepreneurial space as well. Do you think that's a trend that's going to continue? And kind of what's your guidance?
Andrew Patterson 42:19
I think it should, and it will, it's absolutely imperative. That's how we get better. You know, I, the fact that players are the curiosity from them to do it, I think that's what's really interesting, it's not just see the examples of Magic Johnson, afterwards, being an entrepreneur and in business. When I was at Green Fly, this company was co founded by Sean Green, a major league baseball player, you know, 15 years in the league, and he had an idea, and he wanted to technology, and it's a fascinating company, growing and scaling and sports leagues all over the world. And I think the idea that individuals are curious. And what comes to mind is, Spring Hill and more than an athlete is that these people are not singular. There's much more expansive things that they want to do. And I think the fact they want to dive into it and get to it is amazing. You know, I think that being in sports for its players, the people working in extreme opportunity, which has access to the platform, and that platform will not always exist in the same way. So for them to be able to take advantage of that platform in a way that only benefits the sport, but also benefits themselves. I think it's amazing. It's just that you know, you're going to be an athlete for a little bit. But you're going to be a person, you know, hopefully be around for much, much longer. The ability for them to be able to expand and meet people and to understand that, I think is extremely interesting. And quite frankly, the perspective that they bring is completely different. To talk to someone who is literally on the limelight, you step out on a field, you step out on a pitch, you stand on a court, you your moments, there are broadcast and millions in real time. There are few of us who live under that kind of pressure on that you say the wrong thing, or you do the wrong thing. As much as I've worked in Social, I'm extremely grateful that wasn't necessarily around when I was I was younger, because like I made a lot of mistakes. And you know, I had the ability to make mistakes and not have them be publicly broadcast. And for kids today were the things that you say, the mistakes, the arrogance of, as you put it, for those to be things that may live forever, or to get a life well beyond it is it is the time that we live in both for good and bad and it's unfortunate. I understand that the downsides of it. But I think it's fascinating but again to athletes, the ability for them to live in that world, and then bring what they bring to the business world and to invest into, thought and to get their opinions and bring them in. It's like, I don't see how those conversations, those opinions and those perspective don't make us all better. So for them to be involved, as I said, it's hope it's not a trend that will be here to stay, I do think it's here to stay. I think they're becoming smarter, they're becoming better. You see that with NIL out that in the college rates, it's starting to move down. You see universities, starting chapters to help entrepreneurs. And to do that, even from a college perspective. I know when I graduated Carolina was the first year they had an entrepreneurship as a as a minor. Alright, of course, you could take as a discipline again, and now I imagine everywhere can, probably has it startup competitions, kids getting involved. Again, the internet's a technology that brings a lot of people together as a lot more information. So if there's something that you're interested in, it's not waiting, you know, four years for college and grad school and a job to possibly learn that even love today. Find YouTube videos, I'm sure you are start talking about that. So that access to information technology makes us all smarter. And I think it'll get better, it'll be a lot more interesting. So yes, to answer your long your question and very long way, I hope athletes are here to stay in part of that process, take their voices are extremely valuable, extremely helpful on the perspective, the lens makes us all better.
Fiona 46:17
I've yet to learn completely, or even start to learn the American sports system, no, culture, culture, culture. But I'm moving to Los Angeles in less than a month so I will immerse myself to make, thank you to make sure that I know as much as possible, because sport is so important. And I know that but I know in the UK, and I know from having friends who were professional athletes who no longer are, it's really tough, that transition to having been in the limelight, and being everything to suddenly having nothing and having no support, and having no clue about what someone's often meaning and purposes, what's my why. And so I think just to add to what you're saying that it's brilliant, because it gives those individuals who are incredibly talented, who have given so much of themselves who may have an injury, which means they never come back to the sport sort of, they finished too early, it gives them a sense of still being able to contribute, and actually lean into everything they've experienced.
Andrew Patterson 47:29
Does their the work ethic of being a professional athlete is a grind, you know, like you are at the top of the top of the top of your field. Think of how many people play that? You know, we oh, I think we all aspire to be at that level. And again, it's very different. Being there not being and how do you believe time? And what do you do so to start planning that out, properly and ahead of time, but I'm still being involved, I think is a really cool. And actually,
Fiona 48:03
I don't want to talk too much, because I'm conscious that we're up on time. But it's actually quite a juxtaposition. Because when you're training for a sport, there's a very clear schedule that you're sticking to. Now you don't necessarily know how the game is gonna play out, but you do know what you have to do. Suddenly, with entrepreneurship everything goes out the window.
Andrew Patterson 48:24
It's exactly as you said, I'm having similarly the chance to talk to a professional, one of professional athletes in a business context, they say much the same thing. Just that, you know, for so long in your life, like what time you go to practice with these you workout seasons, what we do in the offseason, especially at that level, has been so regimented to have a day that is completely or a life that now is completely unstructured. If you've been a professional athlete, and he retired at 41, that might be the first time in your life where you've had like, no idea what is going on the next day. And that's a slightly different world. Like I can't imagine what that looks like. You know, and so, yeah, I can the experience of being able to do that, I will say from a professional standpoint, when they work in business world becomes very regimented on what they do. And you see that same mindset. That same just kind of internal drive to know that you'd have to get on the path to do it. I think former athletes are some of the best athletes as well, is there's just understanding, again, as you said, teamwork, and how to how to manage it and different people. And all of that are so many experiences there that they bring to bear. So we talked about it's not just in a sense for them. I think for folks who aren't athletes, I think there are a lot of experiences of being on that field talking about community. I think it's good a team and you're working with people I can someone getting treated just getting inserted? They're your teammate the next day you're supposed to get get it off with them that's like that. How long in a business sense it takes in teams and get these people have to be moving so quickly, you'd have somebody come on your team to speak your language. And you're supposed to go out there and play like, how do you do that? You know, like, they're. How do you meet them, these are not long standing friends, but there has to be a collegial bond. And so there's people skills, I think, are a huge part of sports, of having teammates who you have to bond with, not because you are just based on a building, it's not based on hope that you have a culture that pervades very, very differences very close together. And figuring that out. It's extremely interesting. Talking about conversation, social media, there's, that's what you have. So you'd have people who are used to doing that to being in a pot where you have all people from all different walks of life and beliefs and opinions that come together. For a singular goal, singular direction, your ability to do that cohesively efficient, is what defines success. So those people come into organisations, the people skills they bring they're like lightyears ahead of where a lot of folks are. And it's something that is completely underestimated, sometimes, but when you get to see them in a professional setting, they are the people that find it, they're able to talk to everybody, they're able to chat with anyone. And it's really cool to see.
Fiona 51:36
That's really interesting. And I think we do need to celebrate those people more once they've retired or they've moved on. And I think it's a fantastic way of explaining and articulating what they bring to the world beyond sport. I could carry on talking to you for quite a while. But I'm conscious that you have a life, as do you Peri. And so and I have a daughter I have to pick up from school are getting all sorts of trouble if I'm not there, so, I'm not going to make out that it's nothing to do with that. It has been really interesting talking to Andrew we would really, really appreciate your time. Your honesty, your thoughts, your wisdom, I would say that hand on heart, your wisdom. Thank you so much.
Andrew Patterson 52:27
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you!